Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
b2oc9pmb

Need Answers to Some Perplexing Legal Questions...

Recommended Posts

I had 3 Uncles who all lived together--all of who now are deceased.

 

As heirs to one of my Uncle's (my deceased Mother's brother), who died without a will, would we have any "say so" on the sale of the 1/3% ownership of the house he left behind, as far as what it should sell for, what real estate agent will sell the house, etc.?  And, shouldn't we all, (as heirs), agree on the final selling price of the house, even though we only have 1/3% interest in the house?

 

(The other 2/3% of the whole estate was left, BY WILL, to a cousin, (as Executor), and an Aunt).

 

Since my mother is deceased, would a succession necessarily be needed as inheritors, (as her children), of my Uncle's estate?   My Mother really had nothing of value...however, as heirs to our Mother, would we all, (6 of us), still receive a share of the % of the sale of my late Uncle's home,(even though our Mother is now deceased)?

 

Color us totally confused.  Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've already posted on this topic a number of times (and this time without mentioning state).  Please refer to and revive those threads instead of creating a new one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As heirs to one of my Uncle's (my deceased Mother's brother), who died without a will, would we have any "say so" on the sale of the 1/3% ownership of the house he left behind, as far as what it should sell for, what real estate agent will sell the house, etc.?

 

Generally, no.  All of this is the job of the executor of the estate.  The executor certainly may solicit input from the heirs, and the heirs may give input even if not solicited, but the executor is free to disregard any such input.  Keep in mind that it's extremely difficult to sell a fractional interest in a home, except to the other fractional owner(s).

 

Your other question can't be answered without knowing the state in which your uncle lived at the time of his death.  However, in most (if not all) states, you would succeed to your deceased mother's share of your uncle's estate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I selected the state of LA but don't know why it didn't appear. I really don't understand why it would be hard to determine the 1/3 sale portion of the house..we still should receive a portion of the sale, being heirs, no matter how it is arrived at, correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I selected the state of LA but don't know why it didn't appear.

 

It did.  However, the tags that appear below the subject header of the posts are relatively new, so I'm guessing "Fallen" overlooked it.

 

 

 

I really don't understand why it would be hard to determine the 1/3 sale portion of the house..we still should receive a portion of the sale, being heirs, no matter how it is arrived at, correct?

 

The relevant facts are not terribly clear from your post.  As far as I can tell, your uncle owned a 1/3 interest in the house in question, and your aunt owned the other 2/3 interest.  Your uncle died without a will, and some or all if his 1/3 interest either has passed or will passed to you because your mother, who would have inherited the interest, predeceased your uncle.  Is all that correct?  If not, please clarify the facts.

 

To elaborate, we'll call your uncle "John Smith" and your aunt "Jane Doe."  Is there a deed by which title to the property was conferred to Jane Doe as to an undivided 2/3 interest and John Smith as to an undivided 1/3 interest, as tenants in common"?  If not, what exactly does the current deed to the property say?

 

Is the property presently up for sale?  If so, by whom is it being sold?

 

Obviously, if the property is sold at some point, it's very easy to multiple 1/3 by the net amount of the sale proceeds.  However, the way I read your original post was that you stand to inherit a 1/3 interest and would like to sell that 1/3 interest.  In that regard, as I said previously, it's extremely hard to sell a fractional interest -- except to the other fractional owner(s) (who cannot be compelled to buy you out).  Once you clarify the relevant facts, I may be able to offer additonal info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pg 1067: thx so much for your expertise at enlightening me. I have no interest in selling the 1/3 share...very long story, hopefully short..2 of my 3 uncles had a will - the first uncle that died in 1997 did not..they all resided together in the house I spoke of..the remaining 2 uncles "assumed" ownership of the house, which, in fact, wasn't rightfully completely all theirs, since there was no will in place by my 1st uncle who died..,justifying that. This is where we stand...my last uncle died a few mos. ago (my 2nd uncle died in 2006), leaving 1/2 the assets (incl. the house) to my cousin, as Executor, and the other 1/2 to my Aunt (my mother's sister)...so therefore, according to LA law, we are supposed to fall into 1/3 ownership of the house, as heirs to my deceased mother (my uncle's sister)which is to be sold before too long. I hope you are getting a picture now..,and thanks for your kind attention to this matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How was the house titled?  If the three brothers owned it as joint tenants with rights of survivorship, the answer will be completely different than if they owned it as tenants in common or if the form of title changed while one or more of them was alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All 3 Uncles names are/were on the title/deed of the house in question...sorry I didn't say that earlier.

How as tenants in common or as joint tenants with right of survivorship or a combination of the two?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I don't have the answer on if my Uncles were 'tenants in common' w/right of ownership, or if it's a combination of the two--is there a way that I can find out? 

 

And, is there a way we can be sure we're not "out of the loop" (i.e., not notified (by mail?) of the final sale and it's selling price, etc.), when it comes to the final sale of the house, and that we do, in fact, receive the portion of the sale which should rightfully be ours, as heirs? 

Also, after the sale of the home, what is usually the reasonable amount of time one has to wait before too long to question the sale--maybe NLT w/in 6 months time perhaps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All 3 Uncles names are/were on the title/deed of the house in question.

 

 

Sorry, I don't have the answer on if my Uncles were 'tenants in common' w/right of ownership, or if it's a combination of the two--is there a way that I can find out?

 

The way to find this out is to read the deed that was current as of the time of the first uncle's death in 1997.  Whether the three uncles owned the property as tenants in common or joint tenants (with the right of survivorship, not ownership) is a critically important fact.

 

If the three uncles owned as joint tenants, then interest of the first uncle who died passed by operation of law (i.e., automatically) to the two surviving uncles.  On the other hand, if they owned as tenants in common, then the interest of the first uncle who died without a will passed to his heirs (who the heirs were obviously depends on whether the deceased uncle had a surviving spouse, children, parents, etc.).

 

 

 

the remaining 2 uncles "assumed" ownership of the house, which, in fact, wasn't rightfully completely all theirs, since there was no will in place by my 1st uncle who died..,justifying that.

 

I don't know what you mean when you say they "assumed" ownership (or why you put "assumed" in quotation marks).  However, as I explained above, since you don't know whether the property was owned in a tenancy in common or a joint tenancy, your conclusion that it wasn't "rightfully completely all theirs" may well be wrong.

 

 

 

my last uncle died a few mos. ago (my 2nd uncle died in 2006), leaving 1/2 the assets (incl. the house) to my cousin, as Executor, and the other 1/2 to my Aunt (my mother's sister)...so therefore, according to LA law, we are supposed to fall into 1/3 ownership of the house

 

All of the events you have described are absolutely consistent with the house being held in joint tenancy.

 

Is the only reason you think you have an interest in the home because your first uncle died without a will?  You certainly don't have an interest for that reason alone, and it doesn't appear that title was ever transferred after the death of the first deceased uncle.  Correct?  Did the first deceased uncle's estate go through probate?  Were you an adult in 1997?  If so, why didn't you pursue this at that time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the deed of the house, so I don't know if my Uncles were Joint tenants or tenants in common. I'm not even sure if we'll ever get to see it. Since our last Uncle died recently we are questioning the total ownership of the house, since no one now will be residing there...and because we know the first uncle that died, did so without a will, which leaves 1/3 ownership to his heirs...if, in fact all three were tenants in common only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the deed of the house, so I don't know if my Uncles were Joint tenants or tenants in common. I'm not even sure if we'll ever get to see it.

 

It's a public record on file at the local parish/county clerk/recorder's office, so you'll only not "get to see it" if you make no effort to do so.

 

You haven't answered most of the questions I asked you, so I can only assume either that no one bothered to take appropriate action at the time of the first uncle's or that it was handled properly -- albeit without your knowledge -- and that you're making something of nothing.  Go get the deed and remove all doubt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks so much again for the info on obtaining a copy of the deed...know knowing where to go, I will be at that office next week - again - thanks again to your expertise...however, can you tell me if by looking over the deed how I will know for sure if the property (house) was in fact a joint tenant venture or a tenant in common venture? I was told on the phone by the clerk that all 3 uncles are named on the document as buyers/owners..so should I look for a clause specifically stating that "ownership goes to surviving brother(s)/uncle(s), upon death"? The LA assessors office has all 3 of my uncles listed currently as owners of the house (on file).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pg 1067: sorry for not replying to all of your questions--since all 3 uncles lived in the house at the time of my first uncles death in 1997--we just naturally thought that since they all 3 bought the house together that we had no reason to inquire about heir ship of anything. Honestly, we are all rookies (or not in the know. As you can tell), when it comes to things like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can you tell me if by looking over the deed how I will know for sure if the property (house) was in fact a joint tenant venture or a tenant in common venture?

 

The deed will (or should) say something along the lines of the following:  "John Smith hereby grants all right, title, and interest in the property described herein to Thomas Smith, Richard Smith, and Harry Smith, as tenants in common" or ". . . as joint tenants" or ". . . as joint tenants with the right of survivorship."  In other words, it shouldn't be a mystery and should be obvious from looking at the document.  It is possible that it won't say anything, in which case, it should be tenants in common.

 

Make sure you actually look at the deed itself and not some sort of record based on the deed (which may only identify the owners and not the manner in which they held joint title).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is this voice in the back of my head that is whispering, "Louisiana does not recognize joint tenancy with right of survivorship."

 

I thought that might be the case, but I ran a google search and found enough articles that indirectly supported the existence of JTWROS in LA that I thought it worth raising the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I have the "Act of Sale" (of my 3 deceased Uncles) in my hand, and was told LA does not have "deeds" by the clerk at the Clerk of Court office.  I looked it over completely and there is no language on it stating anything along the lines of the following:  "John Smith hereby grants all right, title, and interest in the property described herein to Thomas Smith, Richard Smith, and Harry Smith, as tenants in common" or ". . . as joint tenants" or ". . . as joint tenants with the right of survivorship."  However, it does list all 3 of my Uncles names' and there is verbage saying, "hereinafter referred to as "Purchaser", here present and accepting and purchasing for "themselves, their heirs and assigns, and acknowledging due delivery and possesssion thereof, all and singular, the described property, to wit"--then, "to have and to hold the described property unto the said purchasers, their heirs and assigns forever."    So, could this possibly be the clauses I am actually looking for, in order to be considered an heir to 1/3 portion of the sale of the property, due to one of my Uncles dying without a will?   And, if this wording is not what I'm seeking then, should I consider it to be a document for "tenants in common?"

 

Lastly, again, if in fact we are considered to be 1/3 property heirs, can we have any input pertaining to the initial sale of the house (i.e., all parties involved agreeing on the sale price of the home, etc.)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...