Surfinmagnet

Estate or no estate?

10 posts in this topic

My grandparents home is paid off. Both passed away. Before so they added my 2 uncles to their house deed.  I was told this means the house is no longer considered part of their estate. As people pass away they fall off the deed thus not owning the house and being an asset. Is this True?

   After the last grandparent passed I was told not much would be left over to give descendants as grandma had health issues and was in a retirement home the last 4 years of her life. Meaning medical bills would be paid from the home selling. If indeed the uncles were added, then after my grandmother passed away they became owners of the home and any bills owed if any by my grandmother would not be paid by the uncles as she would no longer be an owner of the home. Thus her left behind bills could not hold her house being sold and its assets reliable for these bills. Is this correct? She had no affiliation to the home legally after passing.

   There was never a will put in probate despite being told I had a trust fund set up for me the day I was born by my grandparents and despite my father passing at age 21. I along with my sister would receive my fathers share they told me. So far going on 2 months of the house being sold I've received nothing. My one uncles daughter who cared for my grandparents lived in the house for nearl 12 years and Atleast 6 years after grandma was put in a retirement home and another 2 years after she passed. It was put on the market after she was told to move. It sold quickly. Paying only utilities in a 3 bedroom full basement huge lot great area resident. How can I find out if I am part of this in any way?  I was told of a trust fund as I mentioned. Yet nobody has contacted me what so ever. 

    I've never asked regarding anything about my grandparents will despite the house selling in June of 2016 and grandma passing in late 2010. I received nothing from my mothers family. It would be nice if my fathers family claimed us. In any capacity. I'm 57 years old and if a trust fund was set up the day I was born I'd think this could be a large monetary inheritance. What can I do?  

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Here's the problem with "I was told."

 

You could be "told" something one minute and something just the opposite could happen in the next minute that nobody tells you about, so here you go laboring under the illusion years later that what you were "told" still is the reality. Likely it isn't which seems to be how posts like yours seem to turn out.

 

However, if you want facts, your first step is to go to the county property records office where the property was located and look up copies of the deeds. Go as far back as when your grandparents owned the property themselves, then move forward for any later deeds that changed ownership and keep going until you get to the most current deed.

 

I wouldn't care to speculate on the variety of possible ownership designations and their consequences so just go get all the copies, take them home with you and come back to this thread and we can discuss your findings.

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Grandpa passed in 2005.  The deed was changed in 2006. Grandma passed in 2010.  

My question is if my grandmother and 2 uncles were on the deed and she passed in 2010. That would mean only my uncles were on the deed when the house was sold in 2016. Meaning they are the owners and the home not part of my grandmothers estate as she falls off the deed upon death. Correct?

   If so then all bills my grandmother owed at the time of her death could not use the sale of the house to pay her debts.  Deed changed 2006, she passes 2010, and the house is sold in 2016. That's 6 years from death to sale and her not even being on the deed at the time of death. So any bills she had accumulated upon death til 2010  her year of death, could sue her for these bills but not claim the house sold as one of her assets  as she would legally not have ownership once she passed. Correct? 

   The will if any was never prorated and doesn't have to be if those in the will agree not to probate it. I'm being told the house sold paid her bills she owed when legally it could not have as at the time of death she owned no house according to the deed correct?  Isn't that why she would change the deed originally 4 years prior to death and one year after the death of her spouse the only other person on the deed. This would protect the house from any creditors  she or grandpa would have owed if any at the time of their passing. Correct?  

  I'm not going I told you at all. I just want to ask if her not grandfather were on the deed after death their house could not be touched b creditors as the house was not considered an asset of either upon death thus falling off the deed. Or am I researching this incorrectly. Can the creditors despite this still sue her estate and include the house as an asset?  Thank you for the quick response. 

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If the property is held in joint tenancy, when a joint tenant dies, the property passes to the surviving joint tenant/s outside of the estate.  It is not reachable by creditors of the decedent unless they had already obtained a judgment and placed a lien on the property.  If that were the case, they would be paid out of the proceeds of the sale of the home.

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2 hours ago, Surfinmagnet said:

Can the creditors despite this still sue her estate and include the house as an asset?

 

I agree with LegalwriterOne that, assuming your uncles became the sole owners of the property by right of survivorship that the house could not be claimed by creditors and, obviously, it wasn't since your uncles were able to sell it.

 

As for creditors suing the estate, they could have done that and still could but if they haven't in 6 years, they probably aren't going to.

 

Is there a reason you are concerned with this after all this time?

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What state is applicable here?

Exactly who was it who told you that you had a trust fund?  A relative? An attorney?  One of uncles?

 

Have you already checked at the county courthouse probate court to make sure that no estate was filed for your grandfather and that no estate was filed for your grandmother?

 

 

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15 hours ago, Surfinmagnet said:

My grandparents home is paid off. Both passed away. Before so they added my 2 uncles to their house deed.  I was told this means the house is no longer considered part of their estate. As people pass away they fall off the deed thus not owning the house and being an asset. Is this True?

 

You've phrased this rather inarticulately, but it's probably accurate.  First of all, you can't "add" someone "to a deed," so I'm assuming what really happened is that your grandparents signed a new deed that conveyed their home from them to them, together with your uncles (e.g., ". . . from John Smith and Susan Smith, as husband and wife, to John Smith and Susan Smith, as husband and wife, and William Smith and Douglas Smith, as joint tenants with the right of survivorship").  When persons jointly own property as joint tenants, then when someone dies, his/her interest passes by operation of law to the other joint tenants, and that interest never becomes part of the deceased owner's estate.  If my assumption is correct, then your uncles now jointly own the home, and it is not part of either of your grandparents' estates (plural).

 

 

15 hours ago, Surfinmagnet said:

If indeed the uncles were added, then after my grandmother passed away they became owners of the home and any bills owed if any by my grandmother would not be paid by the uncles as she would no longer be an owner of the home. Thus her left behind bills could not hold her house being sold and its assets reliable for these bills. Is this correct?

 

This question is a bit of a mess grammatically.  However, it's probably correct, unless the home was transferred to avoid existing debts or within a short period of time prior to your grandmother seeking medicare/medicaid benefits.

 

 

15 hours ago, Surfinmagnet said:

How can I find out if I am part of this in any way?

 

A will, if one exists (which you seem to think is not the case) may be filed for probate.  Trusts are generally privately administered.  After six years, if no one has informed you that a trust exists, you can reasonably assume that one doesn't exist (or that someone is concealing it from you).  Just because you were told something decades ago doesn't mean it was true or that things haven't changed in the time since.

 

 

3 hours ago, Surfinmagnet said:

My question is if my grandmother and 2 uncles were on the deed and she passed in 2010. That would mean only my uncles were on the deed when the house was sold in 2016. Meaning they are the owners and the home not part of my grandmothers estate as she falls off the deed upon death. Correct?

 

Not necessarily.  Any number of things might have happened between 2010 and 2016.  However, as I explained above, a house owned in joint tenancy would pass by operation of law to the surviving joint owners and would not be part of the deceased owner's estate.

 

 

3 hours ago, Surfinmagnet said:

If so then all bills my grandmother owed at the time of her death could not use the sale of the house to pay her debts.

 

More or less, yes.

 

 

3 hours ago, Surfinmagnet said:

Deed changed 2006, she passes 2010, and the house is sold in 2016. That's 6 years from death to sale and her not even being on the deed at the time of death. So any bills she had accumulated upon death til 2010  her year of death, could sue her for these bills but not claim the house sold as one of her assets  as she would legally not have ownership once she passed. Correct?

 

Bills can't sue, and suing a dead person makes no sense.  Her creditors could have sued her estate.  If, after six years, that hasn't happened, then it's too late.  If the estate was never probated, then it is probably reasonable to assume that her creditors wrote off any debts.  Out of curiosity, why are you so concerned about debts owed by someone who died six years ago?

 

 

3 hours ago, Surfinmagnet said:

I'm being told the house sold paid her bills she owed when legally it could not have as at the time of death she owned no house according to the deed correct?

You're piling one hypothetical on top of another, and that is really pointless.  Your uncles certainly could have used the funds from the sale of the house to pay bills owed by your grandmother before her death.  They also could have used it to fund a month long party in Vegas.

 

 

1 hour ago, knort4 said:

What state is applicable here?

 

Have you not learned by now to look for the tag that (sometimes) appears up near the subject header of the post?  In this case, it identifies Indiana.  While that may not mean everything that happened and everyone involved is/was in Indiana, it's reasonable to assume that absent information that indicates otherwise.

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I've checked the courts and nothing is in probate.

the state is Indiana

i had 3 uncles. One had passed. His wife was told she was not in the will to receive anything. Be advised both their children passed at age 21 in accidents involving automobiles. Why she was not entitled made no sense to any of us. Maybe she asked and was told I do not know. 

 

    I'm curious because my grandparents told me of trust funds that were set up for the grandchildren when I was in my teens. Yes I get the "I was told" means nothing without legality documents stating I am an heir in one way or another.  I do not speak much with this side of the family but was told by a close cousin of my aunt being voided from any inheritance. 

    I being legal guardian of my sister is Down syndrome, informed this cousin to relay a message to those in charge of the estate. That anything left to her to be inherited could be retrieved and confiscated by the state as she receives subsidies from the state and SSI for being handicapped. He told me he heard there were medical bills and probably wouldn't leave much for others after paid. 

   I found this maybe a nice way of telling me I'm not part of anything either. Considering how the deed is written on the house it's $180,000 selling price had me curious. I've never been contacted after my last grandparent passed regarding anything of a will, trust fund, or inheritance. I was told after the funeral thanks for coming. Which annoyed me really. Grandma and I were close. I visited her weekly in her home and retirement home because we were close. No that entitled me to nothing I know. But you'd think going on 2 months the house has sold and ownership changed 4 years prior to her passing (called the county) and she passed 6 years ago this September. That there has been more than enough time to contact me regarding any inheritance. I've given them space. I'm not a gold digger either.

    Considering I am on SSDI and am the legal guardian of my sister with downs. Any monetary inheritance could come in handy. If I indeed were to receive my fathers share who passed in 1962 as my grandmother told me I would. That is 1/3 of everything. But if the deed is set up like this and I know it is. The house I was told is not part of the estate. The trust fund part now confuses me. Still the gain could be quite high. 

   My main concern? My mothers family left my sister and I nothing. My mother passed before her mom. In her will (grandma's) only living children were to receive inheritance. Despite my grandmother borrowing $10,000 from my mother of my fathers life insurance she received after his death. This I know for fact as I was involved in a conversation with them both regarding this money. I of course have no proof and could not contest the will. So my sister and I received nothing. 

   My grandmother on my fathers side asked afterwards what I received from her. I told her nothing. Grandma considered that death money. She was furious and reiterated I was getting my fathers share despite him being passed. She was so mad I received nothing considering all she knew about her sons and my dads life insurance from the steel mill he worked at with my grandfather. Of course it doubled with accidental death being the cause of death a car accident. Mom received $26,000 in 1962.  I have all those papers she received including a copy of the check and stub.

   Honestly it comes down to a family claiming my sister and I. It doesn't have to be 1/3 of everything. Having a family at this age claim us is really what I wanted. Monetary would be nice but how do you just say your not part of us?  I am the first born grandchild on both sides of the family. Claim us for better or worse. Blood is thicker than water. But I do see wills and estates can change people. Thank you for taking the time to hear me out. Yes being claimed was more important. I never thought I'd be rich with this inheritance. I have no clue how to proceed from here. Any help would be welcome. Thank you again. 

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Way too much extraneous detail in the follow-up (esp. about what happened in '60s, but please note it was up to your mom to document and collect on any loan to her relatives; chances are there was no enforceable loan agreement that you could pursue from dead borrower granny's estate).  In other words, LET THAT GO.   :)   Best to focus on the questions asked relative to legal issue.

 

A trust set up when you were a kid sh-wouldn't be tied to anyone's estate.  I doubt anyone set one up, because there'd be no reason not to let you have it decades earlier/while gparents were alive.  You're free to contact state unclaimed property folks to see if there's an account with your name on it.

 

The grandparents apparently chose to effectively gift interest in house to particular sons as joint tenants with right of survivorship.

 

Someone telling you that they used sale proceeds to pay their mom's debt may or may not be lyng because they don't want to discuss how they might choose to give you what your father would've gotten were he alive and his parents had chosen to "add" him as a co-owner.  But they're free to use their money/the proceeds as they like.  Presume house was only asset worth mentioning.

 

You waited too long after granny's death in 2010 (and grandpa before her) to see what was what in terms of anything in her estate (or his).  

 

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I tried to start at the beginning.

id imagine the trust fund was real as my grandparents simply didn't BS us kids. HOWEVER as I told the other trust fund recipients...grandfather was offered an office job from his steel mill position to stay working for 5 more years. Totally different health insurance came with this position than factory employees. So if he and grandma ran into financial difficulties they'd use them assets to supplement their health costs. Thus the trust funds could have been tapped into. Understandable. Again I knew of his health woes and the costs that hurt them. 

   There's nothing to say we also won't get something and being involved is good for me. Considering since 2010 nobody was told anything when asked. Only my aunt (Uncle died a year prior to deed changing.  I believe he was executor) was notified she was not in the will. None of us have had our questions answered nor been contacted. Considering my other uncles I'm not surprised. 

    The money my mom was owed had nothing to do with this other than it assured my grandmother on my dads side told me I'd get my fathers share. To me anyway and my wife who also heard it.  The amount or proof of was irrelevant other than subject matter that lead to my being told I was an heir. 

  Why the names were added to the deed I have no clue and was never told by them it even happened. I found out and the county assessor confirmed that change. 

    I appreciate the quick responses I have received. But as I was told long ago if you really want to know what is happening to your grandparents assets ask those in charge of them. So hopefully I will get an answer. If I receive an inheritance or do not receive an inheritance. It will still be an answer. Thank you for your time. 

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