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Is the limitation of scope for custody the date of the order or the date of the hearing?


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#1 Daddyneedshelp

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:50 AM

I have a question that deals with a change in circumstances and court orders.

If you have a relocation hearing that is also a change in circumstances hearing (custody hearing based on the relocation) and the relocation is granted but the relocation order was submitted into the courts over a year later (This was due to the other parties refusing to sign the relocation order) and when the order was finally submitted into the courts the judge refused to back date the order (so the order is not retroactive) from the relocation hearing date but the date it was actually submitted into the courts.

 

To make a long story short my newest custody order is an order that was submitted into the courts not too long ago (less than four months) but took over a year to be submitted but is not retroactive.

 

So my question is if I was to have to go in front of the courts for change in circumstances (custody) hearing, would I be limited to that date of the last custody order or hearing? In other words is the scope of a time-frame from the hearing date or from the date of when the custody order became active?



#2 explorer13

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:37 AM

This response is not intended to create an attorney-client

relationship.

 

Did the Judge announce in open Court or in chambers to

the parties and/or their respective counsel  "...My decision

is.XYZ....H or W (if either was pro se) or H's or W's attorney, please submit a form of written Order." 

 

Uncertain what you meant by "other parties".  

Are there multiple other parties or just one other

party?

 

Perhaps you ought to pay for a transcript of that

Court Hearing to be absolutely certain, if this

Court Hearing was indeed transcribed on the

record. 



#3 Daddyneedshelp

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:36 AM

The judge marked out the nune pro tune (don’t know if that’s the correct spelling due to it being marked out with a line) on the order (which had the date marked out also and the judge only put the date that it was entered on the same line. It would seem as if the Judge didn't want the order retroactive.   



#4 Fallen

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:00 AM

If the judge struck "nunc pro tunc" that means he intended not to make it retroactive.

 

"If you have a relocation hearing that is also a change in circumstances hearing (custody hearing based on the relocation) and the relocation is granted but the relocation order was submitted into the courts over a year later (This was due to the other parties refusing to sign the relocation order) and when the order was finally submitted into the courts the judge refused to back date the order (so the order is not retroactive) from the relocation hearing date but the date it was actually submitted into the courts."

I will note, despite it's length, this is neither a complete sentence or a question.

 

"... if I was to have to go in front of the courts for change in circumstances (custody) hearing, would I be limited to that date of the last custody order or hearing? In other words is the scope of a time-frame from the hearing date or from the date of when the custody order became active?"

It's not precisely clear what it is you're asking; what do you mean by "be limited"?

 

It may be that you're meaning to introduce the topic of a court rule on the time period between seeking a different situation due to change in circumstances.

Please note that you haven't bothered to mention where you are, so even if someone happened by who is familiar with a given state's rules -- and that's if we can hammer out what your question is -- they can't know unless you identify state whether that info would be useful.


I'll echo PG's advisory "warning" with a twist: (Many) legal issues are complicated. Explanations and comments here might not fully identify or explain the ramifications of your particular problem. I do not give legal advice as such (and such is impermissible here at any rate). Comments are based on personal knowledge and experience and legal info gleaned over a quarter century, and every state has differing laws on and avenues to address most topics.  If you need legal advice, you need to consult (and pay) a professional so that you may have someone to hold accountable.  Acting on personal and informational advice from a stranger on the internet is a bad idea -- at least not without your own thorough due dilience/research and confirmation as it applies to your situation.  :)


#5 Daddyneedshelp

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:35 AM

Thank you about the "nunc pro tunc" as I was under the impression that’s what the judge intended.

 

The state am referring to is Virginia sorry.

 

The reason why ask for scope and limited time is that I’m under the impression that in Virginia you can only go as far back as in evidence that can be used in a custody case is limited to the day and nothing before the day that the order became active. So that's something happened let’s say on the 2nd and the order was submitted on the 5th then I can’t bring up what happened on the 2nd due to the order being on the 5th. Is that correct?



#6 Fallen

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:54 AM

You say judge "refused" to "back date" the order, but you do not say why that was deemed necessary.  Lots of details missing.  As to the date OF the order, there is no reason to back date it.  If you're talking about an order granting someone leave to relocate effective as of X date, if relocation was granted from the bench and/or the relocation didn't take place, not clear why someone would fixate on the effective date of the order.

 

If you want to refer to facts/circumstances taking place since the last time a change in custody was sought, it's unclear why you couldn't present those.  I disagree that there'd be a rule one may interpret as saying "can't bring up", as in the judge will hold it against you if you do.  What the judge may consider is a matter of discretion.  If the other side wants to argue that the judge may NOT consider X events and point to an order date, they're free to do so and the judge is free to tell 'em to keep their trap shut/that (s)he doesn't care.

If you are making a DIY project of a custody change, you can expect and should plan to spend a lot of time in a local law library, or money on buying practice manuals.  :)


I'll echo PG's advisory "warning" with a twist: (Many) legal issues are complicated. Explanations and comments here might not fully identify or explain the ramifications of your particular problem. I do not give legal advice as such (and such is impermissible here at any rate). Comments are based on personal knowledge and experience and legal info gleaned over a quarter century, and every state has differing laws on and avenues to address most topics.  If you need legal advice, you need to consult (and pay) a professional so that you may have someone to hold accountable.  Acting on personal and informational advice from a stranger on the internet is a bad idea -- at least not without your own thorough due dilience/research and confirmation as it applies to your situation.  :)


#7 pg1067

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:18 AM

If you have a relocation hearing that is also a change in circumstances hearing (custody hearing based on the relocation) and the relocation is granted but the relocation order was submitted into the courts over a year later (This was due to the other parties refusing to sign the relocation order) and when the order was finally submitted into the courts the judge refused to back date the order (so the order is not retroactive) from the relocation hearing date but the date it was actually submitted into the courts.

 

I guess this is a "run-on fragment" because it's not actually a complete sentence.  When you start a sentence with "if," there's usually a "then" somewhere in the sentence.  This is difficult to follow, but I think what you're saying is that, on some unstated date (let's just say July 1, 2012 for the sake of having something to work with), the court held a hearing.  The purpose of the hearing appears to have been for the custodial parent to seek the court's approval to relocate (to some unstated place either within or outside the same state) with the parties' minor child(ren).  The court approved the relocation and apparently asked one of the parties to submit a proposed order.  Someone did submit the proposed order but apparently did not do so until sometime after July 1, 2013.  You say that the reason for this is that the other party "refus[ed] to sign the relocation order," but that doesn't make sense unless you're talking about approving the order as to form/content.  While I don't know the specifics of Virginia law on this issue, it is typically the case that, if the other party does not approve a proposed order as to form/content within ten days or so, the proposed order may be submitted without such approval, and I can't think of any good reason to wait over a year to submit a proposed order.  In any event, you're saying that judge will not "back date" the order, but it's not clear exactly what the significance of that is.  Can you clarify?

 

 

 

So my question is if I was to have to go in front of the courts for change in circumstances (custody) hearing, would I be limited to that date of the last custody order or hearing? In other words is the scope of a time-frame from the hearing date or from the date of when the custody order became active?

 

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

 

 

 

The reason why ask for scope and limited time is that I’m under the impression that in Virginia you can only go as far back as in evidence that can be used in a custody case is limited to the day and nothing before the day that the order became active. So that's something happened let’s say on the 2nd and the order was submitted on the 5th then I can’t bring up what happened on the 2nd due to the order being on the 5th. Is that correct?

 

The part I underlined above makes virtually no sense.  I think what you might be saying is that you think you're prohibited from complaining about things that occurred before the previous order was entered and want to know if the relevant date is the July 1, 2012 hearing date or the post-July 1, 2013 date when the judge signed the order.  Is that what you're asking?  If so, and assuming the truth of the premise, then I would assume the July 1, 2012 hearing date would be the relevant date.

 

I strongly suggest you at least consult with a local family law attorney.






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