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UNSAFE START FROM PARKED/STOPPED POSITIO


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#1 airuhn

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 03:38 AM

This morning I received a citation for "UNSAFE START FROM PARKED/STOPPED POSITION" in Brazos County, TEXAS. The cop was extremely rude and definitely out to get me. I will be fighting this citation in court. I need to know the current definition/law.

 I have found this : http://codes.lp.find...C/545/I/545.402 :

An operator may not begin movement of a stopped, standing, or parked vehicle unless the movement can be made safely.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.


How do I know whether or not this is current??


 Also this source/website : http://www.trafficvi...or-standing.htm

elaborates on the definition differently :

 An unsafe start from a parked, stopped, or
standing position occurs when a motorist burns out from a complete stop,
screeches their tires from a stopped position, performs donuts in a parking
lot, accelerates in speed too quickly but is not necessarily speeding or pulls
out from a parking spot without checking for oncoming traffic. This law falls
under the drag racing category, which can occur without necessarily speeding,
since two vehicles can race from a stopped point and never reach illegal
speeds.


Assuming these are current and correct definitions, what are some good points for my case? Do I need to worry about the second definition at all? Which is not actually LAW, but rather a DEFINITION.  So when proving my case, do I need to just state that it was a safe point in time to accelerate? Or do I need to defend the screeching of my tires as well?


Let me add that I was not driving abruptly. I just put new tires on my car (which are greasy and slick, therefor have less traction) and I drive a manual transmission (which makes it way easier to peel out).  Your help is appreciated. This cop was the most rude cop I have ever met. On top of not feeling guilty, I am extremely aggravated about his attitude towards the situation, his choice of wording, and the expression on his face whilst telling me said things.


Please help.
Have a blessed day.
With warm regard, Aaron.



Thanks!!


#2 pg1067

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 04:07 AM

airuhn said...

The cop was extremely rude and definitely out to get me. I will be fighting this citation in court.

I certainly hope you understand that the cop being rude or "out to get" you has no relevance to your guilt or lack thereof.


airuhn said...

How do I know whether or not this is current?

It is, but go to the source: http://www.statutes....545.htm#545.402. Or go to the library and look it up in the statute book.


airuhn said...

Also this source/website : http://www.trafficvi...or-standing.htm

elaborates on the definition differently

This is simply someone's opinion about what the law means.  Whether it is based on case authority interpreting the statute is impossible to determine.


airuhn said...

Assuming these are current and correct definitions, what are some good points for my case?

I'm not sure how you expect us to know since you didn't tell us anything about what you did.


airuhn said...

when proving my case, do I need to just state that it was a safe point in time to accelerate? Or do I need to defend the screeching of my tires as well?

You're free to address the things mentioned at this web site.  However, the judge isn't going to give a hoot about your opinion that it was safe; the judge is going to want facts.  The judge will first hear the officer explain why he/she believed it was not safe.  You will then have an opportunity to counter that.  If, in fact, you "burned rubber," you're going to want to explain how that happened.


airuhn said...

I just put new tires on my car (which are greasy and slick, therefor have less traction)

First of all, new tires are neither "greasy" nor "slick."  Nor do they have less traction than old tires.  The "greasy" look of new tires is as a result of the application of protectant like Armor All.  Moreover, the "greasy" look is only on the sides, not on the tread.  And, even if it were on the tread, the effect of a little Armor All on the coefficient of friction between the tires and the pavement would be negligible.  Moveover, unless the new tires were put on at the location where your car was sitting, any "greasiness" on the treads would have worn off the tires after a few hundred yards of driving.  In fact, new tires have more traction than older tires.


airuhn said...

and I drive a manual transmission (which makes it way easier to peel out).

While it is, indeed, "easier to peel out" with a manual transmission, anyone who knows how to drive a manual transmission knows how to do it without peeling out.  Even with a manual transmission, it takes a concerted effort to peel out (unless you were driving some sort of highly temperamental sports car).



#3 RetCopPrlgl

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 05:08 AM

Since the above poster pretty much addressed everything, I won't belabor the issue.

However, quoting pg1067:

First of all, new tires are neither "greasy" nor "slick."  Nor do they have less traction than old tires.  The "greasy" look
of new tires is as a result of the application of protectant like Armor
All.  Moreover, the "greasy" look is only on the sides, not on the
tread.  And, even if it were on the tread, the effect of a little Armor
All on the coefficient of friction between the tires and the pavement
would be negligible.  Moveover, unless the new tires were put on at the
location where your car was sitting, any "greasiness" on the treads
would have worn off the tires after a few hundred yards of driving.  In
fact, new tires have more traction than older tires.


I am SO glad that you addressed this in particular.  In my many years in law enforcement, I can't tell you how many times I've heard this little pearl of wisdom about "new slick tires".  If new tires were slicker than older, worn out tires, why do people refer to the old ones as "slick" ?

As pg1067 said, new tires have a much better coefficient of friction than old worn out tires do.  Furthering that, the element of the coefficient of drag is reduced substantially by replacing old tires with new tread.  Older tires tend to slip (drag) where new tires do so far less.

I am not an attorney. My comments are made based on my training and experience as well as diligent research.  I am also not perfect, therefore, I will accept constructive criticism, if tendered with respect.



#4 Insons_Insontis

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:35 AM

Were you on private property?


#5 Tax_Counsel

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:59 AM

Your post gives me the impression you are contesting the ticket because you are ticked off that the cop was rude rather than the actual merits of your case. You spent a lot of time on that in your post but virtually nothing about what you actually did when you pulled out of the stopped position. That's a mistake. Everyone can have a bad day and can be rude on occasion—it is likely that he didn't have it out for you. In any event, you need to forget the cop's attitude because that has absolutely no bearing on the legal issue. I suggest you not even mention to the judge that the cop was rude because the judge isn't going to want to hear it. What the judge wants is facts: exactly what did you do and why.

While you didn't explain what happened, your suggests you "burned rubber" when you pulled out. While it is, of course, easier to burn rubber when using a manual transmission, that doesn't mean it's easy to do by mistake. Anyone familiar with driving stick can easily avoid doing it just through normal driving of the car, it doesn't require anything special. I've driven stick for many years and never done it. And frankly, the argument that your tires were somehow "slick" because they were new isn't a good one. Tires have their best traction brand new.


#6 airuhn

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:53 AM

Regarding the merits of my case; I would prefer not to disclose the full explanation because cops lurk on here and cops are always trying to help other cops and I don't want to jeopardize my case because some fellow highschool dropout who got bullied and ended up being fat and hating his life wants to help some other gent of the same stature. I would prefer to receive fair advice from fellow citizens whom are being unfairly targeted by power hungry officials who deserve to have their badge removed.

..that said,




yes, I actually do drive a highly temperamental sports car, regarding the slick tires thing, newer tires are more slick, go 'youtube' people dropping their motorcycles straight off of the dealership floor.

furthermore, This is also dependent on the composition of the tire. Softer compounds of Canyon-Carving tires warm faster than a harder touring tire. my car obviously has tires designed for high mileage; thus a harder compound; thus taking longer to warm.



Last, air pressure... Even a half pound of air off can really change
the dynamics of heating the tire. In the cold, it's best to run ever so
slightly on the low side which creates a softer tire. As it flexes and
warms, the tire pressure increases. We are talking about a pound or
less of pressure difference here though.






all that is besides the point though, what does screeching tires have to do with the definition of this law??


thank you for your replies, they were very informative and definitely helped push me in the right direction as for forming a solid case!! any more?



#7 pg1067

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 08:18 AM

airuhn said...

regarding the slick tires thing, newer tires are more slick, go 'youtube' people dropping their motorcycles straight off of the dealership floor.

Last time I checked, there were at least a few significant differences between motorcycles and cars.  I'm also fairly sure the coefficient of friction between rubber and asphalt is quite different than between rubber and linoleum and that very few, if any, dealerships have asphalt floors.


airuhn said...

furthermore, This is also dependent on the composition of the tire. Softer compounds of Canyon-Carving tires warm faster than a harder touring tire. my car obviously has tires designed for high mileage; thus a harder compound; thus taking longer to warm.

Last, air pressure... Even a half pound of air off can really change the dynamics of heating the tire. In the cold, it's best to run ever so slightly on the low side which creates a softer tire. As it flexes and warms, the tire pressure increases. We are talking about a pound or less of pressure difference here though.

If your point is that the coefficient of friction depends on numerous variables, I would agree.  But the assertion you originally tried to make was that "new tires . . . are greasy and slick, [and] therefor[e] have less traction," and my only point was that you are wrong about that.


airuhn said...

all that is besides the point though, what does screeching tires have to do with the definition of this law??

Burning rubber/screeching tires is unsafe because your cars tires are not maintaining continuous contact with the pavement.



#8 airuhn

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:22 AM

cool thanks man, you seem very knowledgeable, and your responses are greatly appreciated.


i might also add that the cop said that "he heard my tires peel out thru 1st and 2nd gear" which would constitute in street-term a "rolling burnout" but the tires were NOT constantly peeling out thru both gears, nor did i shift thru two gears while maintaining a sedentary (for lack of better word) position. (regular peel-out)

basically, in lamens terms, the abrupt application of power/torque from shifting into a higher gear constituted a .05 second "peel-out" which i do not feel is proper to cite for seeing as there was no racing/burning out/showing off/peeling rubber, etc.

the entire "burnout" was literally, less than or = to .05 seconds



regarding him being rude..i asked him how his day was going and he smirked (evil-like) and said wonderful. i could literally smell the evil stench on his breath and see his giddyness in his face

i told him about how my brother died in a motorcycle crash two weeks ago and how i was not driving unsafely and not trying to hurt anybody and he said apparently you didn't learn from his lesson

show some compassion..

might i add that i just had surgery and i'm wearing a robotic like arm brace?

furthermore, in the private-property parking lot that he pulled me over in, once i had already parked my car, turned off the car, took the keys out, and stepped out of my car (and closed the door) he told me to get back in my car, so that he could essentially pull me over.. at risk of being unlawfully beaten/arrested, i sat back in my car and talked to him.

during our conversation, somebody swerved into the parking lot initiating a tire-screech. i very politely asked the officer, "sir i do not intend to come off as disrespectful by asking you this but, did you not just hear that gentlemen screech his tires?", he looked up from punching in my ticket on his electronic pad, smiled very evil like, and said, "no." >:)

and i looked at him like he was insane. it gets better though, then he said, "do you think that I need to have you referred to DPS to take a hearing test to make sure that you don't need to have your license revoked?"...


why would he even go to that extent? i'm telling you, this guy was out to get me.

not to mention the inital, "you know i could take you to jail right?"

of course you could, you could lie and take anyone to jail. we know you have that power. do you feel manly?

*sigh* i absolutely loooooooooooove what he is doing for the community around here (i don't even live here, but, just wow...) great work mr. officer.

i am pretty sure that he was one of those power hungry abusing sociopaths.

once i win my case i am going to talk to the chief of police to see about having him put on suspension and i advise him that i may hire a lawyer to press harassment charges because i did not deserve to be cited for what i feel (and the judge more than likely will too) no reason. it is unfair that i live 300 miles away and have to extend my trip in order to plea not guilty tomorrow, and then return in 4-6 months when i get a pretrial set. it has caused me much distress, anger, embarrassment,..i could go on...



can you think of any other good ways to fight this case? so far i have a multitude of reasons for the coefficient of friction being affected, the fact that there were no cars infront of me (thus making my path of travel safe), the fact that the car is manual transmission (and fairly new, i bought it less than one month ago [and yes it is a high powered extremely temperamental sports car]),



#9 airuhn

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

oh yeah, and there was dirt at the light, and my clutch probably slipped.


#10 Insons_Insontis

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:55 AM

If I understand this correctly...  you are going to try to convince a Judge that you;

1.  Just bought a sports car that has plenty of horsepower and yet drive it like a little old lady going to church...

2.  Squealed the tires from a dead stop because the tires are new and don't have the traction that a used tire has...

3.  The tires were not properly inflated and thus; contributed to the infraction...

4.  Your squealing machine coincidentally didn't have any vehicle in front of it.

5. 
Your tires barked when you engaged second gear but that doesn't have
anything to do with your lead foot or the quick release of the clutch...

6.  Your clutch "probably" slipped.


I imagine the Judge will simply ask you;

1. 
Whose fault is it that your tires were improperly inflated or that
inflation measure wasn't being compensated for from the driver?

2.  Since your tires were new, why didn't you exercise more restraint when releasing the clutch to avoid squealing?

3. 
How did your tires bark in second gear when the car is already in
motion without applying an increased throttle application and/or
uncontrolled clutch release ("slipped") especially after they already
squealed from 1st gear (you were on notice)?

4.  Since you owned the car for a month, how is it you didn't or haven't managed to control those characteristics by now?

I
think you'll discover that the Judge is just as unreasonable as the cop
was and will find you guilty.  You know they all stick together,
right?!





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